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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=149323312-22042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>OK, I agree that manually exporting/importing all your
projects is a pain in the back. However, our situation with the GME release is a
bit different than yours with CAPE. You have to support one well defined
paradigm. We have several "built-in" paradigms, plus we might have to deal with
unknown paradigms developed and registered by the user. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=149323312-22042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Your suggestion is feasible and appropriate if we are
considering the MetaGME environment only. So, I've filed your comments to
bugzilla. Hope, some time I will get to it in my todo list.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=149323312-22042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=149323312-22042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>One more thing: changes in the meta paradigm often
reflect some changes in the GME code (eg.: introducing new preferences, etc.).
Therefore we'd always like to enforce our users to upgrade.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=149323312-22042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>--</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=149323312-22042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>peter</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=149323312-22042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
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style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B>
gme-users-bounces@list.isis.vanderbilt.edu
[mailto:gme-users-bounces@list.isis.vanderbilt.edu] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Larry
Howard<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 13, 2004 5:53 PM<BR><B>To:</B> A list
for GME users to share thoughts and discuss bugs and fixes.<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [gme-users] Why doesn't MetaGME address paradigm
versionchangesautomatically?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=610513112-13042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The main reason we highly recommend the export/import
method when upgrading is the possible incompatibility between the MGA file
formats</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And how often does this actually happen relative
to the number of GME releases? Is a change in the MGA file format
something that is not known to the development team for a particular
release? If it is, would it not make more sense to provide
this guidance relative to a particular release, perhaps in the
release notes? And speaking of this, I highly recommend that GME
make the release notes for new versions available from the
download/distribution site prior to installation so that GME users can decide
if upgrading is important to them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now, none of this changes the recommendation that
I made in the earlier message. Clearly exporting to XME <EM>is</EM>
used as a solution for not distributing multiple paradigm versions
for the paradigms that GME distributes, including the vital
MetaGME. You are correct that this is the problem that CAPE
distributions address, and I continue to argue that it is both good practice
and relatively easily effected. Further, I believe that support for
paradigm migration is something that the MetaGME paradigm should view as a
requirement, regardless of whether it can be handled by GME's normal upgrading
machinery.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Developers must view decisions from the
perspective of their users. When there will be 100s of GME users, who
potentially have 10s of projects (as I do), certain decisions begin to look
like Microsoft's early decisions regarding registry changes and
rebooting. Shall we not be more proactive?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>--<BR>Larry
Howard<BR>Sr. Research Scientist<BR>Institute for Software Integrated Systems,
Vanderbilt University<BR></FONT><A
href="mailto:howardlp@isis.vanderbilt.edu"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3>howardlp@isis.vanderbilt.edu</FONT></A><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3> voice: (615) 343-7447 fax: (615)
343-7440</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=peter.volgyesi@vanderbilt.edu
href="mailto:peter.volgyesi@vanderbilt.edu">Peter Volgyesi</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=gme-users@list.isis.vanderbilt.edu
href="mailto:gme-users@list.isis.vanderbilt.edu">'A list for GME users to
share thoughts and discuss bugs and fixes.'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 13, 2004 7:35
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [gme-users] Why doesn't
MetaGME address paradigm version changesautomatically?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=610513112-13042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Larry,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=610513112-13042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=610513112-13042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The main reason we highly recommend the export/import
method when upgrading is the possible incompatibility between the MGA file
formats (note: not because of some paradigm change but the change of
the file format itself). This kind of problem has not be handled by
CAPE, and it is far from straightforward to provide such a migrating
tool (this tool would have to access different MGA versions on the very same
computer).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=610513112-13042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>--</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=610513112-13042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>peter</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=610513112-13042004><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B>
gme-users-bounces@list.isis.vanderbilt.edu
[mailto:gme-users-bounces@list.isis.vanderbilt.edu] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Larry Howard<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 09, 2004 4:51
PM<BR><B>To:</B> gme-users@list.isis.vanderbilt.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B>
[gme-users] Why doesn't MetaGME address paradigm version changes
automatically?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>GME's release notes state:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM>"As your first step in the upgrade
process, please export all your<BR>important projects (to XML format).
Binary compatibility between<BR>different GME versions is not
guaranteed."</EM></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We have recognized and addressed this issue
for our GME-based product CAPE. During installation, we distribute
and register all paradigm versions that we currently support, and updaters
are provided to address any discontinuities not handled by GME's native
upgrading features. We do this because it is an unreasonable
expectation of our users to export all of their GME projects to XME
prior to upgrading GME versions, especially when exporting to
XME is used to address simply the unavailability of earlier versions of a
paradigm.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>GME distributes several paradigms as part of
its installation. Most important among these is the MetaGME paradigm
that is an essential part of using GME for anything other than
projects that use the other distributed paradigms. It
would be relatively straightforward for the MetaGME paradigm to follow the
lead of CAPE in supporting migration between paradigm versions, since
it is unlikely for this paradigm to incorporate such discontinuties as
could not be handled by GME's native upgrading features or simple
updaters.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG>Why not?!!</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>lph</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3>--<BR>Larry Howard<BR>Sr. Research Scientist<BR>Institute for
Software Integrated Systems, Vanderbilt University<BR></FONT><A
href="mailto:howardlp@isis.vanderbilt.edu"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3>howardlp@isis.vanderbilt.edu</FONT></A><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3> voice: (615) 343-7447 fax: (615)
343-7440</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
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